As TABLO himself says, if EPIK HIGH had its own cinematic universe, it would always be raining. Rain has frequently permeated their music, sometimes for retreating into deep emotions, sometimes for taking swipes with sharp criticism, and sometimes to be pushed through with heartwarming hope. And now, he says, he’s working with RM on his new song to “Stop The Rain.”
“Stop The Rain,” your single with BTS member RM, is coming out on May 2. How did the song first find life? [Note: This interview took place on April 10.]
TABLO: It’s been over two years in the making. A lot of people loved “All Day” (with Tablo), the song I did with RM before, and even before his enlistment, RM was telling me, “I hope we can work on one of your songs next.” So we started talking about it. I thought something more emotional than “All Day” would be nice, and when I asked RM, he said he wanted something like the music from the Map the Soul days [EPIK HIGH’s one-time indie hip hop label]. So I sent him a few tracks, and after hearing a rough demo for “Stop The Rain,” he said, “It’d mean a lot to work with you on a song about rain.” He said it might take some time but that he wanted to write the lyrics in English.
Was there a particular reason why you chose rain for a theme?
TABLO: If we had a cinematic universe, I feel like it’d be all rainy days. Things like rain and rainy days show up in EPIK HIGH’s music all the time. RM has songs like “forever rain,” too, and there’s always been a rainy sentiment to BTS’s music. Even “Spring Day” has this feeling of a light drizzle, you know? We’ve always liked those emotions in each other’s music, and we felt rain held significant meaning for us both. A rainy day feels like the perfect image for expressing the hard parts of being young. It rains, then it stops, then the sun comes out and you feel like you’ve overcome something. But it’ll always rain again. There’s hope there, but also that you need to get used to the pain. “Last time I got soaked, so next time I’ll be better prepared. I’ll bring an umbrella or wear a raincoat or something.” That, to me, captures what it means to be young. The ironic thing is that the song’s called “Stop The Rain.” It’s about stopping the rain because you’re so sick of living life in it.
Why do you want to stop the rain, though?
TABLO: I’ve been through all kinds of hard things in the over 20 years I’ve been making music. Everybody knows all the stuff I went through, and then I got married, had a kid … So I’m stronger now. And RM, even though he’s been so loved from the time he was a trainee until now as BTS, he’s had his share of hard times, too. And he, too, has become stronger for it and gotten used to getting caught in the rain—to the point where he can say, “It’s alright, I don’t need an umbrella. A little rain won’t kill me.” So with “Stop The Rain,” we’re at a level where we can easily say, “I’ll stop the rain that’s falling on you.” In the past, an EPIK HIGH song would say something more like, “It’s going to keep on raining, but I’ll be there in the rain with you.” But this song’s more about the feeling of wanting to stop the rain altogether, I think.
I’m guessing you had a lot of conversations with RM throughout the process for a song like this.
TABLO: I found out from “All Day” how much RM likes to talk things over while working, so I reached out to him the whole time while making this new song. We must’ve sent hundreds of messages about this one song alone. When it comes to an EPIK HIGH song, we tend to work independently, but with RM, it’s completely different. It felt like we were in our own group together, even though we’re actually from different groups. Music has always been lonely work for me. In fact, I thought it had to be lonely. I’ve never had so many conversations about a project as with this one. It’s even influenced the way I work with EPIK HIGH slightly. We’ve been at it for over 20 years now, but Mithra and I are only just starting to talk more while working. (laughs)
And did those conversations help shape the structure of the song too? You each have your own verse and the chorus doesn’t repeat many times, so it gives the impression of being relatively simple.
TABLO: There was originally going to be a moment of calm after RM’s verse, followed by two lines that felt important to me, but he was very upfront and said he felt like that would break the emotional flow. I thought about it and felt I didn’t write those two lines because they’d be important to the listener but because I wanted to say them. So I went ahead and cut them. (laughs) I think he felt a little sorry because a week later he asked me, “Is it too short now?” But I told him, “Nah, it’s perfect. Once I heard it, I knew it was the right call.”
It’s fascinating how the music isn’t overly layered or complex, and the rain samples are kept to a minimum, and yet the conceptual imagery of the rain is incredibly clear. Did you have a particular angle in mind when you were making the music?
TABLO: I try to keep my music as sparse as possible, so the first thing I do it get rid of any channels that aren’t necessary. RM agreed with me—“Let’s focus on what’s strictly necessary.” I think there’s two types of music producers: people who are like programmers and take a technical, perfectionist approach to sound design, and people like me, who work purely on feeling. One’s not better than the other. They’ve both got their strengths. Namjoon, though, he makes music in a way that’s similar to me. Even if something sounds a little rough, if it makes it possible to convey the emotion I need to get across, I don’t really mind. It might even sound like static, but if a sound, word, or beat brings out an emotion, it has to be there.
It’s like you can physically feel the layers through how you set up the vocals within the soundscape. For me, it feels like your vocals are front and center, then RM starts from far away in the chorus and makes his way towards you, and you’re eventually together, having a conversation.
TABLO: That wasn’t something we planned from the outset—we just naturally came to that decision while working on it. When we started out, RM’s vocals were perfectly clear, not sounding like we’re having a conversation with a lot of space between us, but then he said it’d be nice if it felt like a conversation when it moves from my vocals to his, so we tried playing his vocals to make them sound far away. We also didn’t have any parts where we rapped together at first. There’s a part in RM’s verse where I say, “Be positive,” and that was from something he said too: “How about we take out my vocals there and you record it instead so it sounds like we’re talking to each other?” So then we rewrote the lyrics and made more edits so it sounded like a back-and-forth. “Stop The Rain” feels like the kind of song that had to be done with someone younger than me but who’s soaring high, like RM. I mean, I’ve been there. I think it makes sense. It makes it more meaningful that way.
It sounds like you had to make a lot of involved decisions to make this one song. At the core of it all, what were you hoping to convey emotionally?
TABLO: RM asked me, “Are we just coming across as like we’re detached? Or are we more feeling that way, emotionally speaking?” I told him, “Maybe it’s because of everything I’ve been through and how it’s worn me down, but even though my words are sharp or suggest pain, I’m detached from it.” Then he said, “I see what you mean. That detachment’s even sadder.” Even though we’re saying the same thing, though, we have different perspectives on life. And he has pains inside him that I can’t begin to understand. So I felt like his vocals should naturally contrast mine by sounding less detached—still sharp around the edges, but at the same time, feeling like he’s still searching for answers. The first line of RM’s verse is sort of a twist on something I sang on TV before. I had written a similar line into my part in the demo, but when I saw RM’s lyrics, I realized it described him more than me. So I ended up rewriting my verse, and all these old experiences of mine came flooding back. It was probably the same for RM. When that happens, you can’t just sit there wondering, “Can I really write this?” You have to write it raw. And I just want to tell both our fanbases, just in case, that there’s no need to worry. It shows how strong we are that it’s called “Stop The Rain.” It’s actually a hopeful song. (laughs)
You both paid a lot of attention to detail and have a personal connection to the song, but it’s taken all this time for it to be released.
TABLO: I’m sure people will be curious why it took two years to release a song we already made. (laughs) We were going to release it right after we finished, but it felt weird to just have a song come out while RM was doing his service, and six months later I was eyeing a release again. A year went by while I kept thinking about what do with it, and then I decided not to release it at all. It felt like I had someone else’s diary in my hands. I mean, RM wasn’t in a position to speak for the song at that point. But then, as we approached the two-year mark, I got a message from him. “I’m about to be discharged and you still didn’t release the thing? What’s your angle, man?” (laughs) I told him honestly, “I wasn’t sure I should just release it, given the kind of emotion you poured into it, and after waiting, I started thinking maybe that wouldn’t be the right call.” But then he was like, “What are you talking about? Release it. Those emotions are still relevant.” (laughs) I said, “Okay, sorry,” and now it’s coming out.
You mentioned the single in an interview from two years ago, and you also raised the possibility of a solo album last year. Does this single tie into any of the solo work you’re planning?
TABLO: After I put out “Fever’s End,” I started work on a new solo album, with “Stop The Rain” at the center and other tracks around it, but it got too dark. When I make an album, I try to align it with what I’m feeling in my head and in my heart. I thought I’d be different 10 years after “Fever’s End,” but I still had the same thoughts, just more detached. Things get real hard when you mess around with the bad parts, so once I made the decision not to release the single, I also told myself I’d never put out another solo album again. The solo songs I wrote ended up on EPIK HIGH albums instead. If you took all the ones I wrote since “Fever’s End,” there’d be more than 20 of them. One time I tried sticking them all together in a playlist, and honestly, I thought it made a masterpiece. (laughs) But I still didn’t want to put them out as an album. They were things I needed to say, to put out there, but I guess I didn’t want to put them all together in one place and draw too much attention to them.
Still, it must be a big deal just making the decision to release “Stop The Rain”—like you’re each working through your own things.
TABLO: I really like the way you describe it as an act of working through something. I’m pretty sure releasing this song is the right move. There’s no way to know for sure, but once RM’s back, he might need to focus on new music, and he might have things to say and emotions he needs to deal with before that. I think it’s lucky we can get this song out to people before the long monsoon season. With everyone experiencing their own kind of rain, I hope they can find someone or something like in the song that’s there for them and they can let all their feelings out to. I’m also at a point where I want to keep my videos on YouTube lighthearted. There’s still heavy emotions that are a part of who I am that I’m not turning my back on, but it feels like the right thing to do, to put the song out now before dealing with the next thing.
Like in the song, there’s serious, poetic side to you, but you also have a playful side, which we see when you’re with the rest of EPIK HIGH on YouTube. What’s it like have two different sides like that?
TABLO: I’m always the same, no matter who I’m around. Whether I’m with family, the group, on YouTube, or in the recording studio, I’m always the same guy. But half the people I see don’t like that about me. There’s definitely people who wish I’d be more respectful or humble around them. Then there’s people who only know me through my music, and when they meet me, expect me to be dead serious like my older songs. But I can’t turn off one side of me just because somebody only wants the other one. I’m a serious person, but I’m also a total goofball like on YouTube. I don’t know how to put on an act. What you get with YouTube and with “Stop The Rain” are both me. Maybe I picked out a yellow crayon that day, or maybe it was black. Just because I drew with black doesn’t mean that’s the only color I’ve got.
The side you show on YouTube has actually always been a part of what makes EPIK HIGH and its sense of humor unique.
TABLO: It’s crazy, right? We filmed a YouTube video yesterday, and there’s so much contrast between that and this conversation we’re having right now that even I get whiplash. (laughs) For months, our YouTube channel’s been full of videos with funny thumbnails, and now “Stop The Rain” suddenly has to drop in the middle of all that. I’m sure fans are going to feel a little thrown off. They’ll listen to the song and go, “Oh, he was always like this,” and then a few days later see more YouTube type videos and be like, “Oh, was he always like this?” (laughs)
Speaking of which, you’ve been on a real kick with the EPIK HIGH YouTube channel lately. (laughs)
TABLO: To be perfectly honest, it was out of boredom. When we do a North American tour, we basically live together on a bus. Every show is different and full of excitement, but in between, there’s not much going on, so we started making vlogs and people seemed to like it. We were like, “We were always this way, but I guess people forgot. Maybe everyone other than our fans just see us as these serious musicians.” (laughs) So we said, “Since we’re all here anyway, let’s film it and upload it.” And here we are. (laughs) By the time this interview comes out, I doubt we’ll have hit a million subscribers yet. But as long as fans like it, that’s what counts. And we’ll keep the music serious.
Even with the way you run your YouTube channel, it still feels almost DIY, even though you’ve got a team working on it.
TABLO: We didn’t want to do it like a TV show. It’s not easy to sum up what EPIK HIGH’s about in a few words, so we thought it’d be better to keep it among ourselves. Fortunately, we found someone who totally understands our style, so they film and edit it exactly like we’d do it on our own. We told the producer for our channel right from the beginning, “We’re not in this to get sponsorship deals or huge view counts right away. What we’re proud of and confident about is our longevity. If we dig and don’t hit water, we’ll keep digging till we do. If it takes off right away, it’ll feel like a job, and then there’s pressure to keep it up, so let’s avoid all that and just take it slow.” After all, this is something we plan to keep up forever. Whether we have guests on or not, we wanted to create a community where people could just enjoy watching. And now people have been saying our channel feels like something from the golden age of YouTube—from when there wasn’t a lot of money in it and they weren’t even properly lit.
It feels like what makes that approach possible, as with your independent label, OURS, is a small, agile team that enables you to make quick decisions.
TABLO: Just like how I strip away any unnecessary layers when I’m making music, I strip away everything unnecessary in life. I liked to drink when I was younger, but it started getting in the way, so now I barely drink. Our whole label’s probably smaller than a single department of some other companies. I’m not kidding—we can make any decision in under three minutes. Of course, if something bad or difficult to deal with happens, it’s on us. But anytime something difficult pops up, it’s on you to deal with it anyway. Right up until the TaJinYo incident, I was considered one of the most well-connected people in the entertainment business. Then the second that happened, I was all alone within three hours. So even for the good stuff, I just want to focus on making things with my people—my friends, my partners, my employees. That way I can protect my people, the ones inside that boundary. If I’m having a good time with the people I’m with, that’s all that matters.
It sounds like the people you hold close to you, including your family, are a major part of your life. You bring up your daughter now and then and you two almost feel like friends, sharing the same thoughts and interests.
TABLO: It’s like having a 15-year-old creative director in the house. I feel so blessed. Haru’s been into music and movies ever since she was little, and by the time she was 11 or 12, she was getting super into fashion. Everything she likes, she discovered herself, so when the three of us are together, we all have completely different styles. (laughs) Haru sends me playlists, and her taste in music is amazing. She listens to a really wide range of stuff. I’m always looking for something new to listen to, too, but she’s at that age where she likes digging around and catches onto stuff so quickly, which is actually helpful for me, too. Recently, she’s been saying, “Dad, there’s this movie I absolutely have to see. Can we watch it together?” So we’ve seen things like “Titanic” and “Legally Blonde” together. And just the other day, we watched “Good Will Hunting.” Haejung is really into music, too. I think we connect better than I do with the group. (laughs)
And yet you and the other two members of EPIK HIGH have been in your group for 23 years now. (laughs) It really feels rare that a group can keep going without any kind of break like you have while also balancing it with your personal lives.
TABLO: For three adults like us to all be on the same page and continue doing something at our age is insanely hard. We all have different personalities and our lives have taken all of us down different paths. We’re all married now, with kids, and live in different neighborhoods. I guess we’re lucky. Even when it comes to our staff, when we find someone who clicks with us, we end up working together for a long time. But the world keeps changing, and trends along with it, and it can come to the point where you have to replace someone if they can’t keep up, so we try to help them learn more so we can avoid that. Like, “If you can’t keep pace with us, we won’t have any choice but to work with somebody else. So let’s go catch a movie together. You don’t have to be perfect, but as long as you keep up with me, we’re going to keep working together.” Luckily everyone pulls their weight like that, so it’s never the case that one person’s pulling too far ahead or falling too far behind. I mean, these days I’m fine with falling behind, as long as it’s together.
It must mean a lot to you that you’ve got those two walking side by side with you.
TABLO: MITHRA, TUKUTZ, and me—none of us are good at hiding who we are or pretending to be someone we’re not. I mean, I admire people who can do that. I even acknowledge it’s something of a necessity. But maybe knowing we couldn’t do that is why we chose this path. But even with this path, when you’re part of something bigger, there’s times when just being yourself can be impolite. Like, “If we don’t have that kind of control, let’s just stuck with each other.” And we’ve been keeping things simple ever since. We can be ourselves when it’s just us. And I love that.
You’re like a family, in a way.
TABLO: I can trust them with anything. I mean it. And I know they could trust me with everything they have. And I’m not just talking about money. They’re the first ones I’d call if anything ever happened with my family. There’s no question about it—I’m 100% sure. It makes me realize some things are thicker than blood. When one of us has an issue, they’re the first ones who come running. Not many people our age can say they’ve got a good friend or something they feel they can trust completely—and we’ve each got two. It’s so important to me that I’ll do anything it takes to hold onto it. If there comes a day we can’t make music together, it doesn’t matter whether we’re running a naengmyeon restaurant, doing YouTube, doing something funny, sad, cool—as long as we can hold onto this connection, that’s all that matters. There’s no saying for sure what’ll happen, but we’ll keep making something together.
